with the first pick...

Jake0890 (MIN) wrote:

bestnamezRtaken (DAL) wrote:How can you somewhat disagree? LeBron bailed on Cleveland, who at the time had a decent roster (that had the best record in the league his last season) and he quit on the team. He ran to Miami to team up with Wade, who was coming off playing 77 games and putting up 26.6ppg, 6.5apg, 5rpg on 48% shooting for Miami and Chris Bosh, who played 70 games putting up 24ppg, 11rpg, 2.5apg on 52% shooting for Toronto.

Their first year together, Wade still played 76 games and put up 25.5ppg, 6.5rpg, 4.6apg on 50% shooting. LeBron ran to play with two superstars in the league at the time of the creation of Miami. Bosh isn't a superstar anymore but he's still an All-Star who would average the most points on most of any team in the league right now.

The fact is, LeBron needed two All-Star players to win. So in this case, I would definitely pass on LeBron and Durant and take the 3rd/4th picks in the draft.

There's a team in the NBA that has the 3rd and 4th best players in the league, the Houston Rockets. They've got both Dwight and Harden, and guess where they are in the standings? 4th in the West. They're certainly not favorites to win the Finals, and I'm not sure they make it to the Conference Finals even.

Point is, taking those 2 guys gets you no closer to the Finals than Bron or KD does. LeBron at least got to the Finals singlehandedly in Cleveland, even if he didn't win it. There's no precedent to show the 3rd and 4th best players can win anything either.

Joakim Noah is waving at you while you proclaim Dwight Howard is the 3rd or 4th best player in the league this season.

LakeshowAK7 (LAL) wrote:

Jake0890 (MIN) wrote:

bestnamezRtaken (DAL) wrote:How can you somewhat disagree? LeBron bailed on Cleveland, who at the time had a decent roster (that had the best record in the league his last season) and he quit on the team. He ran to Miami to team up with Wade, who was coming off playing 77 games and putting up 26.6ppg, 6.5apg, 5rpg on 48% shooting for Miami and Chris Bosh, who played 70 games putting up 24ppg, 11rpg, 2.5apg on 52% shooting for Toronto.

Their first year together, Wade still played 76 games and put up 25.5ppg, 6.5rpg, 4.6apg on 50% shooting. LeBron ran to play with two superstars in the league at the time of the creation of Miami. Bosh isn't a superstar anymore but he's still an All-Star who would average the most points on most of any team in the league right now.

The fact is, LeBron needed two All-Star players to win. So in this case, I would definitely pass on LeBron and Durant and take the 3rd/4th picks in the draft.

There's a team in the NBA that has the 3rd and 4th best players in the league, the Houston Rockets. They've got both Dwight and Harden, and guess where they are in the standings? 4th in the West. They're certainly not favorites to win the Finals, and I'm not sure they make it to the Conference Finals even.

Point is, taking those 2 guys gets you no closer to the Finals than Bron or KD does. LeBron at least got to the Finals singlehandedly in Cleveland, even if he didn't win it. There's no precedent to show the 3rd and 4th best players can win anything either.

Joakim Noah is waving at you while you proclaim Dwight Howard is the 3rd or 4th best player in the league this season.

He's having a career year on a bad team in a terrible conference. Dwight Howard is better.

Its like when I had Bynum a couple years ago and everyone still maintained that Dwight was better because the Sixers were not contenders or even in the top half of the conference in the time.

Jake0890 (MIN) wrote:

LakeshowAK7 (LAL) wrote:

Jake0890 (MIN) wrote:

bestnamezRtaken (DAL) wrote:How can you somewhat disagree? LeBron bailed on Cleveland, who at the time had a decent roster (that had the best record in the league his last season) and he quit on the team. He ran to Miami to team up with Wade, who was coming off playing 77 games and putting up 26.6ppg, 6.5apg, 5rpg on 48% shooting for Miami and Chris Bosh, who played 70 games putting up 24ppg, 11rpg, 2.5apg on 52% shooting for Toronto.

Their first year together, Wade still played 76 games and put up 25.5ppg, 6.5rpg, 4.6apg on 50% shooting. LeBron ran to play with two superstars in the league at the time of the creation of Miami. Bosh isn't a superstar anymore but he's still an All-Star who would average the most points on most of any team in the league right now.

The fact is, LeBron needed two All-Star players to win. So in this case, I would definitely pass on LeBron and Durant and take the 3rd/4th picks in the draft.

There's a team in the NBA that has the 3rd and 4th best players in the league, the Houston Rockets. They've got both Dwight and Harden, and guess where they are in the standings? 4th in the West. They're certainly not favorites to win the Finals, and I'm not sure they make it to the Conference Finals even.

Point is, taking those 2 guys gets you no closer to the Finals than Bron or KD does. LeBron at least got to the Finals singlehandedly in Cleveland, even if he didn't win it. There's no precedent to show the 3rd and 4th best players can win anything either.

Joakim Noah is waving at you while you proclaim Dwight Howard is the 3rd or 4th best player in the league this season.

He's having a career year on a bad team in a terrible conference. Dwight Howard is better.

Its like when I had Bynum a couple years ago and everyone still maintained that Dwight was better because the Sixers were not contenders or even in the top half of the conference in the time.

...I don't think you watch very much basketball

LakeshowAK7 (LAL) wrote:
...I don't think you watch very much basketball

What the hell are you talking about?

Joakim Noah is averaging 12.2 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 1.5 BPG, and a PER or 20.01.
Dwight Howard is averaging 18.6 PPG, 12.3 RPG, 1.8 BPG, and a PER of 21.61.

In every statistical catergory relevant for a center, Dwight Howard leads Joakim Noah. Dwight Howard's team, the Rockets, are 44-21.
Joakim Noah's team, the Chicago Bulls, are 36-29.

Oh, and let's not forget now that Luol is no longer on the Bulls and Rose is hurt, Joakim is now the focal point of the offense and gets more shots than anyone else on the team, but still cannot match what Dwight is doing on a team with Harden, Parsons, Lin, Asik, and Beverly.

So yeah, Dwight Howard:
a) Is helping his team win more games
b) Has more points per game
c) Has more rebounds per game
d) Has more blocks per game
e) Has a better PER
f) On a better team, and while not being the focal point of the offense, STILL has better stats than Joakim.

So don't tell me I don't watch enough basketball just because you watched the last few games where Joakim Noah went off against the Heat and Pistons.

Jake0890 (MIN) wrote:

LakeshowAK7 (LAL) wrote:
...I don't think you watch very much basketball

What the hell are you talking about?

Joakim Noah is averaging 12.2 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 1.5 BPG, and a PER or 20.01.
Dwight Howard is averaging 18.6 PPG, 12.3 RPG, 1.8 BPG, and a PER of 21.61.

In every statistical catergory relevant for a center, Dwight Howard leads Joakim Noah. Dwight Howard's team, the Rockets, are 44-21.
Joakim Noah's team, the Chicago Bulls, are 36-29.

So yeah, Dwight Howard:
a) Is helping his team win more games
b) Has more points per game
c) Has more rebounds per game
d) Has more blocks per game
e) Has a better PER

So don't tell me I don't watch enough basketball just because you watched the last few games where Joakim Noah went off against the Heat and Pistons.

LOL.  

Noah's Win Share - 8.6
Dwight's Win Share - 7.6

(Noah is helping his team win more games actually)

Noah's W/S per 48 - .191
Dwight's W/S per 48 - .165

(Again, Noah is helping his team win more games actually)

Noah's ORtg/DRtg - 112/96
Dwight's ORtg/DRtg - 109/100

(Noah's are both better again showing that Noah is helping his team win more games)

Dwight's Defensive Win share - 3.9
Noah's Defensive Win Share - 4.9

(So where Dwight is supposed to be the more impactful player, he's actually not)

Raw stats such as the ones you listed only take you so far.

Dwight Howard's own coach: http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/10602459/joakim-noah-chicago-bulls-defensive-player-year-kevin-mchale-houston-rockets-says

And if you want to continue to talk about PPG, I will show you Noah's Ast% compared to Dwight's and that will squash that argument real quick.

LakeshowAK7 (LAL) wrote:

Jake0890 (MIN) wrote:

LakeshowAK7 (LAL) wrote:
...I don't think you watch very much basketball

What the hell are you talking about?

Joakim Noah is averaging 12.2 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 1.5 BPG, and a PER or 20.01.
Dwight Howard is averaging 18.6 PPG, 12.3 RPG, 1.8 BPG, and a PER of 21.61.

In every statistical catergory relevant for a center, Dwight Howard leads Joakim Noah. Dwight Howard's team, the Rockets, are 44-21.
Joakim Noah's team, the Chicago Bulls, are 36-29.

So yeah, Dwight Howard:
a) Is helping his team win more games
b) Has more points per game
c) Has more rebounds per game
d) Has more blocks per game
e) Has a better PER

So don't tell me I don't watch enough basketball just because you watched the last few games where Joakim Noah went off against the Heat and Pistons.

LOL.  

Noah's Win Share - 8.6
Dwight's Win Share - 7.6

(Noah is helping his team win more games actually)

Noah's W/S per 48 - .191
Dwight's W/S per 48 - .165

(Again, Noah is helping his team win more games actually)

Noah's ORtg/DRtg - 112/96
Dwight's ORtg/DRtg - 109/100

(Noah's are both better again showing that Noah is helping his team win more games)

Dwight's Defensive Win share - 3.9
Noah's Defensive Win Share - 4.9

(So where Dwight is supposed to be the more impactful player, he's actually not)

Raw stats such as the ones you listed only take you so far.

Dwight Howard's own coach: http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/10602459/joakim-noah-chicago-bulls-defensive-player-year-kevin-mchale-houston-rockets-says

And if you want to continue to talk about PPG, I will show you Noah's Ast% compared to Dwight's and that will squash that argument real quick.

Whatever man. I'm not going to continue this.

Dwight has better stats on a far better team. Joakim is having a standout year because he is the focal point of the offense on a bad team.

Dwight is the better player. I'm taking him 10 times out of 10 over Joakim without a second thought.

As physically dominant as Dwight is, he brings also zero skill to the basketball floor. Sad that someone like him hasn't developed very much since entering the league.

agree - Dwight is only so good because the league is so short on decent Cs. Where would Dwight rank in the 90s where we had some decent Cs?

Also, wow thats some nice analysis from Lakeshow

and I don't think comparisons of Cleveland LeBron and MIA LeBron are valid. He has grown as a player so much since then...

andrei (POR) wrote:agree - Dwight is only so good because the league is so short on decent Cs. Where would Dwight rank in the 90s where we had some decent Cs?

Also, wow thats some nice analysis from Lakeshow

and I don't think comparisons of Cleveland LeBron and MIA LeBron are valid. His chin and head have grown so much since then...

fixed.

If Parker was younger I'd take Parker/Davis over Lebron. Run pick and roll, pick and pop all day.

Curry or Westbrook with Davis is interesting as well.

LeBron has a unique skillset and he brings to any of his teams an ability that does not translate to CSL, which is based only in numbers..
LeBron has the ability to make other players around him WAY better than They really are.
He has that monster combination of speed size strenght and athtleticism, combined With his skills (although I think he dominates the Game With his athleticism, not by having great ball skills), and he's very unselfish and has so Much vision, he demands the other team's 5 guys attention, that he creates so much room for his team to operate. Also he can shut down any player in the league except for Durant, who offensively is uninstopabble.

At the NBA, when you have the chance to pick LeBron and surround him With shooters / defenders, even if it's a serpentine fantasy draft, you gotta get LeBron. After that, everyone fits next to James, so you draft the most defensive players and just only another volume scorer. The other guys are gonna score cause LeBron will give them opportunities.

I Love Durant's Game and I'm impressed how his Game has matured even though he's still very young. But LeBron ia by far the best player in the league. You can't pass on him, only for financial reasons. (Bron expiring and Durant not)

Here at CLS, or ta any other sim League, you Opt for #3 and #4, and Build a balanced roster around them. The ring is pretty much yours then.